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	<title>Comments on: Religious Affiliation, Dogma, and a stopped train</title>
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	<description>... where the water meets the sea, between the worlds, within the void ...</description>
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		<title>By: theo</title>
		<link>http://theogeer.net/autumntwilight/archives/835/comment-page-1#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator>theo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Ian,

I&#039;m pleased I was able to help in your process of clarification. I&#039;m looking forward to seeing you at our upcoming rituals this year!

@George

I&#039;m not surprised the word Shepherd seems discordant. It&#039;s one that many NeoPagans take umbrage to. For many years I would have responded precisely as you have above. I&#039;ve come to believe that our anger at the term is misplaced.

It seems to me that when we refer to the Christian paradigm as flocks of sheep we are doing a great disservice to the true tradition of Christianity (whatever our personal feelings about it are), and the many deeply spiritual people who have committed their lives to their faith. We critically refer to them as sheep, docilely following whatever authoritative voice stands up to lead them, never questioning the dogma or beliefs they are given.

In truth, we know that the Christian faith has a very long history of dissent, radicalism, upheaval and social change, and though it may seem static and antiquated to our eyes as outsiders, I believe we limit ourselves and our interactions with other faiths by subscribing to this insulting stereotype.

I don&#039;t think the term shepherd needs to contain the negativity it is so often associated with. Dictionaries and Wikipedia define it as a spiritual leader, or a teacher. Someone who guides individuals and groups. Whether those receiving guidance are free-spirited rebels or docile yes-men, the function is very similar. It is the responsibility of spiritual leaders to inspire, to guide, to teach, and to uplift. 

It does not mean to choose for another. It means to offer support. It is to shine a light on the path. Our negative experiences with Christianity often make us view the shepherds, the priests, as villains. In truth, nobody is forced to hate us. Some people hear the teachings and choose to believe homosexuals are evil. Some people hear that teaching and reject it. 

Yes, there are many people who blindly follow the teachings their spiritual authority gives to them. That is true in all communities and religions, including NeoPaganism. I think our tone of superiority, of explicit rejection of spiritual authority, belies a deeply troubling need for revelation that our community often finds in the words of the most popular author of the moment, or the leader of their coven or tradition.

I would agree, by large the community that the Brotherhood is building has avoided obeisance to an authority. It is part of our tradition and indeed a tenet of our faith to do so. But that does not mean our membership and larger community does not seek, desire, need, or receive guidance. It means that we choose to provide that guidance carefully, with an eye to supporting the individual right to choose their course, to discover and live their own ethics, and to experience the Divine for themselves. And in a way, is that not just as firm a dogma as any preached from a pulpit? Are we not guiding our members towards the divine according to the tenets of our faith?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ian,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pleased I was able to help in your process of clarification. I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing you at our upcoming rituals this year!</p>
<p>@George</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not surprised the word Shepherd seems discordant. It&#8217;s one that many NeoPagans take umbrage to. For many years I would have responded precisely as you have above. I&#8217;ve come to believe that our anger at the term is misplaced.</p>
<p>It seems to me that when we refer to the Christian paradigm as flocks of sheep we are doing a great disservice to the true tradition of Christianity (whatever our personal feelings about it are), and the many deeply spiritual people who have committed their lives to their faith. We critically refer to them as sheep, docilely following whatever authoritative voice stands up to lead them, never questioning the dogma or beliefs they are given.</p>
<p>In truth, we know that the Christian faith has a very long history of dissent, radicalism, upheaval and social change, and though it may seem static and antiquated to our eyes as outsiders, I believe we limit ourselves and our interactions with other faiths by subscribing to this insulting stereotype.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the term shepherd needs to contain the negativity it is so often associated with. Dictionaries and Wikipedia define it as a spiritual leader, or a teacher. Someone who guides individuals and groups. Whether those receiving guidance are free-spirited rebels or docile yes-men, the function is very similar. It is the responsibility of spiritual leaders to inspire, to guide, to teach, and to uplift. </p>
<p>It does not mean to choose for another. It means to offer support. It is to shine a light on the path. Our negative experiences with Christianity often make us view the shepherds, the priests, as villains. In truth, nobody is forced to hate us. Some people hear the teachings and choose to believe homosexuals are evil. Some people hear that teaching and reject it. </p>
<p>Yes, there are many people who blindly follow the teachings their spiritual authority gives to them. That is true in all communities and religions, including NeoPaganism. I think our tone of superiority, of explicit rejection of spiritual authority, belies a deeply troubling need for revelation that our community often finds in the words of the most popular author of the moment, or the leader of their coven or tradition.</p>
<p>I would agree, by large the community that the Brotherhood is building has avoided obeisance to an authority. It is part of our tradition and indeed a tenet of our faith to do so. But that does not mean our membership and larger community does not seek, desire, need, or receive guidance. It means that we choose to provide that guidance carefully, with an eye to supporting the individual right to choose their course, to discover and live their own ethics, and to experience the Divine for themselves. And in a way, is that not just as firm a dogma as any preached from a pulpit? Are we not guiding our members towards the divine according to the tenets of our faith?</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://theogeer.net/autumntwilight/archives/835/comment-page-1#comment-532</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m definitely with you, this description of our Order&#039;s place in the general scheme of religion certainly resonates.

The usage of the word &quot;shepherd&quot; certainly hit me like a discordant note, though. I think that despite the fact that there is a fair amount of underlying (but still necessary and beautiful) dogma in our Brotherhood the members of the Outer Order are sufficiently independent enough in spirit and action  to not require &quot;shepherding&quot;. I&#039;ll remind you that a shepherd&#039;s flock is composed of sheep. The shape that the guiding and counseling in our order has taken has spoken mainly to individuals of their paths in life and in the Brotherhood. Very little is done to actively move the entire group of Brothers towards a specific goal, destination, or set of ideologies and morals. As such I see no flock and no shepherds. That shepherd/sheep mentality has always struck me as a little cultish no matter who is doing it =p

Just a thought ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m definitely with you, this description of our Order&#8217;s place in the general scheme of religion certainly resonates.</p>
<p>The usage of the word &#8220;shepherd&#8221; certainly hit me like a discordant note, though. I think that despite the fact that there is a fair amount of underlying (but still necessary and beautiful) dogma in our Brotherhood the members of the Outer Order are sufficiently independent enough in spirit and action  to not require &#8220;shepherding&#8221;. I&#8217;ll remind you that a shepherd&#8217;s flock is composed of sheep. The shape that the guiding and counseling in our order has taken has spoken mainly to individuals of their paths in life and in the Brotherhood. Very little is done to actively move the entire group of Brothers towards a specific goal, destination, or set of ideologies and morals. As such I see no flock and no shepherds. That shepherd/sheep mentality has always struck me as a little cultish no matter who is doing it =p</p>
<p>Just a thought <img src='http://theogeer.net/autumntwilight/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ian Phanes</title>
		<link>http://theogeer.net/autumntwilight/archives/835/comment-page-1#comment-530</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Phanes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great post!  

It clarifies what I was perceiving, and finally resolves my discernment process.  I&#039;ve been leaning toward not joining, partially because Amatheon helped me understand that I not only can contribute to the experience of the public rituals without joining, but that I&#039;d been doing so without even realizing it.

But I don&#039;t need another religion.  I have several already.  And none of them is the religion of NeoPaganism that the Brotherhood is an order within, so I can&#039;t just add some Brotherhood specifics to any of my existing practices.

I will continue to show up multiple times a year to the public rituals, but that&#039;s the appropriate relationship for me at this time.  (If I were to move to Chicago, I might recommence the discernment process, if the Spirit moved.)

If there is ever a way I can contribute to the work of the Brotherhood--by providing a sounding board, teaching a workshop, or whatever--I hope that you and the Brotherhood wouldn&#039;t hesitate to ask me just because I&#039;m a seeker rather than a brother.  You folks have given me a great deal that I can&#039;t put into words, and I would be happy to give something back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!  </p>
<p>It clarifies what I was perceiving, and finally resolves my discernment process.  I&#8217;ve been leaning toward not joining, partially because Amatheon helped me understand that I not only can contribute to the experience of the public rituals without joining, but that I&#8217;d been doing so without even realizing it.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t need another religion.  I have several already.  And none of them is the religion of NeoPaganism that the Brotherhood is an order within, so I can&#8217;t just add some Brotherhood specifics to any of my existing practices.</p>
<p>I will continue to show up multiple times a year to the public rituals, but that&#8217;s the appropriate relationship for me at this time.  (If I were to move to Chicago, I might recommence the discernment process, if the Spirit moved.)</p>
<p>If there is ever a way I can contribute to the work of the Brotherhood&#8211;by providing a sounding board, teaching a workshop, or whatever&#8211;I hope that you and the Brotherhood wouldn&#8217;t hesitate to ask me just because I&#8217;m a seeker rather than a brother.  You folks have given me a great deal that I can&#8217;t put into words, and I would be happy to give something back.</p>
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